Author Topic: Signals "Reading" Two Blocks Away  (Read 4480 times)

westdetroit

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Signals "Reading" Two Blocks Away
« on: November 17, 2015, 08:47:45 AM »
Hi. I was running Toledo West the other day and noticed that when a train was following another train that they were running at normal speed. Usually if a train is following another train the following train would receive either an Approach, proceed at Medium Speed (30 MPH) prepared to stop at next signal or, on higher speed rails, an Approach Limited, proceed at 40 (45 for passengers) two blocks away and then an Approach one block away the entire block to allow for safe train handling. Maybe this can be incorporated later. Unless I didn't observe correctly as I was pretty busy.  ;) Thank you.

DPump

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Re: Signals "Reading" Two Blocks Away
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 04:00:31 PM »
Just to explain...

In CTC we don't use the 1-block/2-block speed limits. Instead, the signals convey the information of two signals, the one right at the point (home signal) and the next signal (seen here as a distant signal). This, plus the speed limits on the blocks and switches and the length of the blocks, determines the speed profile for the next couple of blocks.

Another aspect is, that we don't have something saying when you see this signal you need to slow down to lets say 30 mph right away and then prepare to stop even though the train could slow down to make a safe stop sometime later. The only important thing at a signal is that the train has to obey the speed limit right at the signal, not at some point later - which would be essentially up to the discretion of the train engineer.

So, you will have a slowdown of the following train, but not because the train slows down right away if the next signal is stop, but rather the engineers knows that the next signal is stop, and how far away it is, keeps that in mind and is prepared to slow down and stop in time - until he is close enough to see that signal.

In future. it is planned to make the 2-signal conveyance more flexible - there are real life situations that for certain routes the distant signal information is not displayed - because the next signal is too far away. and a distant signal is (or is not!) present someway down the line. In stations, some tracks may not be approved for traveling through without stop. Also, cab signaling will be added sometime.


westdetroit

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Re: Signals "Reading" Two Blocks Away
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 07:57:38 PM »
Thank you for your explanation. I will only share this for informational purposes as it was only a suggestion so I won't dwell on it any further. Some signal indications do convey reduction in speed as soon as a train passes a signal as illustrated here (Approach). This signal is a popular signal prior to a Stop indication. I just thought it would realistically keep the trains further spaced but you guys have already done a lot that is more realistic/flexible than TD. Keep up the great job!  :)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 04:41:44 PM by westdetroit »

DPump

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Re: Signals "Reading" Two Blocks Away
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2015, 01:03:12 PM »
It is actually worth considering, since especially some older systems force the train to slow down at passing of a distant signal (if in danger) to a certain extent due to a point control system at the track.

The way the trains accelerate and brake in CTC is by far not perfect, so it will be eventually re-visited and your suggestion will be considered then.

westdetroit

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Re: Signals "Reading" Two Blocks Away
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015, 01:30:17 PM »
Thank you! I really appreciate that. I think acceleration is pretty good (not sure if it's perfect unless a train has specified tonnage associated to its length) but it does seem to take a bit to get up to normal speed, which is a good thing. Braking on the other hand could use readjusting because regardless of tonnage it would easily take a freight train of 7,000 feet over a mile to come to a complete stop. The advance signals are necessary for the safe train handling required to come to a safe stop. Again, thank you for the consideration.  8) (By the way, I would love to see a "thumbs up" smiley as you deserve them :) )